Only in Space ... 

Rocket Robin Hood Vignette - Friar Tuck

What about this guy, one of the most ardent opponents of the regime, and one of its logest prisoners, who has been persecuted, tortured, denied medical care, access to lawyer, or even family members.  And despite all this--and unlike the "Green Revolution" losers, this guy has never "confessed" or "repented" for what he has done:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hossein_Kazemeyni_Boroujerdi

He advocates separation of religion and politics.  Here's him talking about his opposition to mixing of religion and politics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPI44fuCaL0

Brother Ali.

Akhoonds apart from a few minor exceptions are biggest enemies of Eslam and Muslems and Iran. Akhoonds have been created by England many hundred years ago to divide muslems. So Although they can be whores of anyone with a big pockets, they are mainly the whores of England. Recently they have added the commies like Putin and Chinese and koreans to their long list of clienets. Kind of global diversification of their whoring business as some scientist brothers would say

But the worst kind of Akhoonds a are the Fokoli Akhoonds  who do not even preted to be Muslems anymore, yet do what the akhoonds do for living. That is whoring themselves to the enemies of Iran.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?um=1&sa=N&biw=1366&bih=587&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbnid=Zh0FW-dEqg4vDM:&imgrefurl=http://www.wbez.org/blogs/bez/2012-06/worldview-61212-100017&docid=Y1PxatEyHJRenM&imgurl=http://www.wbez.org/system/files/styles/original_image/llo/insert-images/AP0709240112948.jpg&w=512&h=373&ei=e0YzUp3pFYKQ9gSnlIGYAg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=171&page=2&tbnh=144&tbnw=207&start=23&ndsp=28&ved=1t:429,r:25,s:0,i:163&tx=56&ty=53

My 2cents as usual.

The moment we try to paint every one with same brush stroke, we risk becoming the very same people.

Our nation and our people have had a very difficult and bitter time, specially in the recent history as a result of the influence of these folks (akhoond).  But it would be a grand failure on our part to dismiss our own responsibility for this event/period.

And indeed, there have been few and far apart  Akhoods that have understood the Iranian people, humanity and common sense.  Saddly again, in some cases we failed to support them in the way they needed our support.

Mehrdad

A better question is why do we even need an akhoond? what purpose do they serve? Take a look at your life, have you ever deal or needed akhond for anything in your life? answer is clear.

MRX question is a very good one. Baha'is don't have Mola or Akhound why do we need one?! But for sake of argument here I would say there are/were good Akhounds. some were such as: Talghani, Shariatmadari, Montazeri who were against creation of Velayat Fagih at the begining until their death, and others who are alive today (refer to AO's links above) who are against the unholy mixture of Din-va-Siasat, these akhonds are for separation of state and religion establishment and they are pay the price for their ideas and Beliefs as secular activist do. Every time you mix religion and politics and making religion the absolute and only law of the land you create some of the worst EBLIS on earth!

A few good Akhond would not make a difference. In applied science you can treat a very small fraction as zero and I think it is the same here. Even a large fraction such as one good Akhond in every 50 would not make a difference. You can also argue that a really good Akhond will leave that damn profession, e.g. Kasravi, Dashti.

Taleghani

http://www.mghaed.com/ay/Taleghani.pdf

Montazeri

http://www.mghaed.com/essays/farewell/wonderful_ascendency_of_an_ayatollah-1.htm

Yes. There are good Akhoonds. Many of them imprisoned by the Fascist islamist regime as we discuss their goodness. Many of them murdered by the Islamist regime. I mention two here who have huge popular support in Iran - despite massive regime sponsored black propaganda against them - after their death due to their stance against Khomeini/Khamenei version of islamist Fascism

Ayatollah Taleghani:

Taleghani was "known for his tolerance" and "served as Khomeini's mediator in disputes with the Kurds and other dissident groups."^[6] He also had differences with Khomeini, which led to a clash between them in April 1979. "To popular acclaim, Taleghani warned then against a `return to despotism.`" Two of Taleghani's sons were arrested^[6] by revolutionary Guards, but thousands of his supporters marched in the streets chanting `Taleghani, you are the soul of the revolution! Down with the reactionaries!` Khomeini summoned Taleghani to Qom where he was given a severe criticism after which the press was called and told by Khomeini: `Mr. Taleghani is with us and he is sorry for what happened.` Khomeini pointedly did not refer to him as Ayatollah Taleghani.^[7]

Taleghani died on 9 September 1979.^[3] His mysterious death and lifetime achievements were the occasion of huge crowds and much emotion before and during his funeral,^[4] and was said to be "a blow to moderation and progressive thought" in the revolution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Taleghani

Ayatollah Montazeri:

He is noted for his opposition to the massacre of the tens of thousands of political prisoners in summer of 1989 on Khomeini's personal orders. Some of these political prisoners belonging to organisations alleged to be responsible for his (Montazeri's) own sons killing....For his opposition, he saved many lives, but lost his certain position as successor to khomeini, opening the door to khamenei's rise to power, leading Iran to the disasterous state it is today...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hussein-Ali_Montazeri

May these two and everyone else who lost his life for Iran and freedom of it's people rest in peace.

Down with Islamist Regime

Long Live Iran

A good Akhnood is a dead Akhoond.

Shariatmadari, Taleghani, and Montazeri (AFTER he broke with Khomeini) were halfway decent akhoonds.

Yes of course there is a good Akhoond. Better than a dead Akhoond is the Akhoond that has never been born :)))

Brothers! Sisters! Khans! Khanooms! All members of the animal kingdom

What is going on here? I thought that Hate speech, Calling for people's Death, were the exclusive right to muselms and not you the enlighted secular democrat reformist fundamentalist islamo leberation intelectual type!

A khoob Akhoond is a mordeh Akhoond!

A look at this survey and some comments show us why after a few thousand years we still have not managed to cleanse our society off these charlatans. Even after 35 years of killing, torture and stealing by the Akhonds, there are still some people who justify their presence in the society by saying that there were also good Akhonds. They can only name a few in tens of thousands of Akhonds that have lurked in our society in the last 50 years and that itself says it all. It is like saying that not all bears kill because there is also one in the circus that makes us laugh. True from a logician's point of view but nevertheless misleading.

It seems that the definition of a good Akhond is the one who doesn't kill. Is that enough to make them good? Then what about the backwardness, ignorance and the superstitions that they spread in the society? Even Montazeri is guilty of that.

It is truly sad that one of the most tolerant and fair-minded members (Divaneh aziz) is turning less and less objective.

Divaneh aziz,

If we care to pay attention to the survey, it seems it is design to get a sense if we believe Akhoonds are collectively rotten or if we are willing to entertain that there an be good and there many bad among them even in this sector of society.

I think if we are to criticize/condemn any type comment here, we ought to start by those who are wishing death upon a sector of society without any trial, any proven guilt and merely based on their profession, something Nazis had done and we so rightfully condemn that.

My kudos to Seyed, despite my vast difference of opinion with him, to sarcastically point out that few of us are not any better than those Muslims that we condemn here day-in day-out for behaving the same.

Mehrdad

Dear Bavafa,

I don't think anyone here has demanded the execution of Akhonds. If you ask me no one should be killed, full stop. I am also for the fair trial of all people including the clergy.

My argument however is that these guys are engaged in a harmful profession. There is no good akhond because what they teach harms the society. Akhonds have been the cause of most miseries, before and after Islam. We should stop romanticising about these cunning, lazy preachers who feed on people's ignorance and keep the society backward. For example show me one Akhond who believes in women's right. This profession has to be outlawed in the very same manner that wizardry and Ramaally is outlawed.

Divaneh jaan,

While I don’t believe they should be outlawed, mainly due to the fact that they can claim victimized, I agree pretty much with all other things you said.  Also, I do believe I saw at least one post which seems to be deleted now, that was recommending killing 1000000 (I might have my zeros wrong) Akhoond in the form of summary execution.

The other posts “a good akhoon is a dead akhoon” also insinuate killing though not nearly as explicit as the deleted one.

At any rate, all I am saying is that if we are hoping to change the mentality of wishing death upon those we disagree with including our enemies, we ought to start with ourselves and setting a good example.

Ba sepas.

Mehrdad

Yes, a good mullah is a casterated mullah!

I am not sure what exactly constitues a fair and just trials for those who have literally and willingly have issued orders tyat either directly or indirectly has lead to the annihalation of a whole generation of youth in iran.

What could possibly be a fair trial??? No really. please would someone educate me on that?

Dear Divaneh,

With all due respect, you are arguing about a larger point when the question posted by this survey is a simple one, and that is: is there such a thing as a good akhoond?  The answer is clearly yes.  Now if the question was "what do you think about the akhoond profesision," then we would / should have a different discussion, more along the lines of what you're arguing.  

In my opinion, Boroujerdi is a good akhoond.  He clearly believes in what you and I believe in--which is separation of religion and politics.  He has been punished severely for the belief for almost a decade now. He has been exiled, tortured, denied basic medical care (is almost blind from lack of medical attention) and has been denied visits from family memebrs for years.  He even had a death sentence imposed against him at some point for the same belief--which is more than what you and I can say.  So, he has put his money where his mouth is--and he has not relented on his belief that religion and the state should be separate.  Also to me, Boroujerdi's beliefs encompass a belief in women's rights beacuse he doesn't want to impose the backward religious views on women through the power of the state.  We should not dismiss his sacrifices--and those of others like him--just because he is a priest.  

AO jan

Be that as it may, Regardless of how well-behaved and how refined / reformed these people may come across , in my opinion you'd have to look at where their roots are at. Where is the origin of their beliefs. I admit that the respect that he has for the rights of women is a noble thing in and of itself, But then do you really think when it comes to more nuanced and detailed matters and cases, where he has to refer to "ahkams" , that he would take the side of women or he will do what his training tells him to do.

I mean, in one thing , i agree with divaneh, and that is that we have to look at the nature of these people, their essence of being, which has been formed and shaped by their trainings and the philosophy of the religion which they have been exposed to, which goes back to the days the learned to walk or say da da. Literally:)..."here sweetie, take this cup of tea to your granddaddy and oh, here is a scraf, cover your damn self up...but daddy...i am so young(crying)...Say what?  don't cry or i will give ya somethin' to cry about...now...Shut your piehole and do what you're told you little..."::)))))

I really don't think we can enjoy! a reformed version of someone who has had his mind immersed in some hard core conservative ideology, something that has been practiced in their household for generations,  particualry with a strong hint of religion thrown in. He or she could show some flexibility, here and there, but deep down he remains faithful to his belief structure.

So really, this is not as much about the sacrfices he has made is about to make or will make, as it is about who really is deep down.

If and when he gets out of jail, and even if we for some odd reason end up having a new spiritual leader, i will bet you he is not gonna be any different in imposing strict rules, albeit a new set of rules, His rules or rathet the one that pleases his masters.

My 2 zar dah shahi:)

Dear AO,

If the question is only to see if there is a good akhond then it is a pretty useless question/survey. Yes, there is a good akhond (good defined as someone with generally praised moral values). You can ask any similar question and the answer is always yes. Is there a good priest? yes, Is there a good member of Savama? yes, Is there a good Basiji? yes, Is there a good member of Ku Klux klan? Yes. There must be one who thinks the Klan should not go as far as killing the blacks. But these types of questions are misleading.

I try to read between the lines of such questions. The question tries to wash some Akhonds of the blame for our desperate situation and the rampant corruption that they have spread. You can bet that if one day the regime fell, the same type of question will be asked to justify the continuation of the Akhondism in Iran. Suddenly every Akhond becomes Boroujerdi and Montazeri, and another cycle of deceit starts.

Boroujerdi has suffered and I wish he would be freed tomorrow but I don't think sacrifice necessarily justifies the beliefs or then every suicide bombers would have been right. We class people as good or bad by judging their action. Boroujerdi with all his good intentions cannot go against his prophet or Quran. By the nature of his profession he is promoting Islam, Quran and blind obedience, and we all know what damage it can cause. If in doubt, have a look at Middle East.

Dear Bavafa,

I agree, but if not outlawed, they should be heavily monitored by secular governments and any of them trying to spread hate or dogma should be struck off and forced to sweep the streets.

Divaneh jaan,

I agree with a thumbs up for your last comment.  In fact, I think they should not be any different than the rest of socitey, if not more scrutinized.  Any hate preaching or any thing that is remotely breaks human rights, ought to be punishable under the full force of law.

Mehrdad

Dear DM and Divaneh,

So what about Martin Luther King?  He was a priest as well.  Should he be dismissed along with pedophile Catholic priests--or with the rest of the Christian clergy for the atrocities committed during the Inquisition?  As I have made clear in the past, I'm a vociferous--Chris Hitchens type--atheist.  I believe that much of human misery has come from religion.  At the same time, I'm also a believer in freedom of thought, and I'm a realist.  Religion is not going anywhere.  The overwhelming majority of the world's population believes in one of the three major religions.  Also, if someone chooses to believe--or preach--that there's an invisible entity guiding everything that we do, then that's his/her choice.  So long that the person is not trying to impose that thought on me or anyone else, I have no issues with him/her at all.  So, if Broujerdi is a believer in the Islamic doctrine, but preaches separation of that thought from politics and government, then he should be praised.  Also, please don't forget that despite their countless shortcomings, many preists around the world have helped--and continue to help--many in need, whether in is in defense of immigrant rights in the U.S., or providing medical care, shelter and food to those in need, etc.  Again, look at MLK.

If Broujerdi wants to cling to his prophet and his Qura'n, that is his choice and right as a free person--especially when he has been--and is--being punished for saying that the prophet and the Qura'n should be personal issues that should have no place in politics.  

And in terms of sacrifice--nothing in this world has changed without the personal sacrifices of men and women.  What would you call a suicide bomber who kills instruments of oppression and torture? What if a suicide bomber eliminates Khamenei and brings an end to the Velayat Faghih system?  I understand your disgust with political Islam (I'm in the same boat), but I think that our approach should be more nuanced.    

What is being asked here, in between the lines, is our attitude towards mixing politics and religion, and ultimately, is a "good Akhoond" the one who doesn't get involved in the politics, or the one who gets involved for the good of the people?

My opinion is that "men of God", in the long-run do more damage than good when they get involved in the politics. Therefore, a good Akhoond is one who sticks to her religious stuff.

Boroujerdi, Ahmad and Hadi Ghabel shine because the rest of this so called Good Akhonds have taken silence. The silent majority don't even care about the Aberooy-e Eslam anymore let alone the perish of Iranians, otherwise they would have collectively stood up to Khomeini in the first place for claiming Hokoomate- Eslami run-by-clergy, which was never heard of in the history of Islam.

Currently Shi'a Ayatollahs are not dependent on Khums and Zakat because they are officially on IRI payroll, even those like Sistani who resides abroad. Some are additionally paid via Beyt-e Rahbari. This hush money keeps them on a tight leash and indebted to him therefor, they are not obliged to respond to the plea of the devout.

To Iranians Islam and IRI have become the same hence the good Akhonds have become useless Akhonds. They can stir up some emotions on cyberspace but cannot bring masses to civil disobedience. IRI have successfuly separated people and clergy.

Good Akhonds do not tell the bad Akhonds how to run the country. To follow the Islamic tradition Good Akhonds should have collectively and dirctly told the bad Akhonds: ”LEAVE POLITICS, IRAN, AND IRANIAN ALONE”. Too late, IRI has 10,000,000 croonies just in Iran and if they run out of baradar-kosh they import hired-to-kill merceneries.

****************************************************************************

" تابستان 59 محققی فرنگی خواست برای تهیهٔ ملاط فیلمی مستند و کتابی دربارهٔ‌ اسلام سیاسی کمکش کنم.  در مشهد و قم کنجکاو شد چرا آیت‌الله‌هایی با کیابیا و خدم و حشم و اندرونی‌ بیرونی، در حکومتی اسلامی این‌قدر نگران به نظر می‌رسند و پیش از زدن هر حرفی دور و برشان را نگاه می‌کنند و صدایشان را پائین می‌آورند.  گفتم برنده‌هایی که در نظر داری اینها نیستند؛ آنها اقلیت کوچکی‌اند، ‌اینها اکثریتی بازنده‌اند که پیشتر آسوده بودند و کسی جرئت نداشت به خانه‌شان سنگ بیندازد یا به حسابهای بانکی‌شان چپ نگاه کند. "

http://mghaed.com/essays/press&publishing/16_years_on.htm

Dear AO,

I think we perceive this question very differently and as you already said are discussing two differnet issues.