"When I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck." Poet James Whitcomb Riley
I asked Bruce if he could prove NIAC members loved Iran and he answered:
"No I can't prove they love Iran."
Here's my reaction to his blog and his answer above;
I did not think you could. And that is precisely what I implied by asking you the question. It was a rhetorical question, after all.
You claim all those who joined NIAC did it out of love for Iran. Since love is an emotion and a mental activity it cannot be easily proven. Thus, whether the members indeed love Iran or their membership is due to other factors cannot be proven by the payments of their fees. So, your statement is either a self-projecting one or merely based on a the false premise that since NIAC's activities have something to do with Iran therefore those who join it must love Iran. That is your assumption that they love Iran is lacking hard evidence.
However, when it comes to NIAC you stop short of applying the same line of reasoning. You apply two different "logical" conclusions simply because you assume you are right. Iranians who are aware of NIAC's activities in the past decade and a half or so and oppose it or even despise it believe that if NIAC members attack you as vehemently as the regime's cyber agents do, if they censor you like the regime censors you, if they associate with the regime officials, if they oppose every opposition group out there, then one can conclude they are regime's lobbyists. Otherwise, what is the purpose of their activities?
You may also argue the regime does not pay NIAC or it does not even approve of NIAC's activities, but then again your argument is a baseless and an emotional one without any "hard evidence." Payments can be made in all sorts of ways. But that is not the real issue here.
That being said, quite a few non-Iranian individuals have asked me about the recent "unsigned" nuclear "deal." My response is that the Iranians I know oppose this "deal" or any other deals with the regime in Tehran because they oppose the regime and not necessarily because they know what's in the agreements. And I add, because of the nature of the current regime, Iranians feel they have been betrayed and are getting the short end of the stick. I sometimes give them its Persian version, "choobeh do sar ...!"
Now, based on the information that we are exposed to, I believe Faramarz's short analysis is the closest we can get to the truth.
Last but not least, the way NIAC was established also supports Faramarz's analysis. However, in their zeal to try to promote and prove themselves as loyal servants of the their adopted Iranian masters, they alienated Iranians in general and Iranian-Americans in particular. And in the process, underestimated Iranians which, contrary to what you claim, points to their stupidity and not vice versa.
They also underestimated the regime in Tehran and ended up getting the short end of the stick. Or the Persian version of it.
Here's an excerpt from the link I posted above:
"NIAC was officially launched in 2002 as a 501c3 nonprofit organization. During the consultation in 2001 to create NIAC, Trita Parsi admitted the legal difficulties he faced. A pure lobbying organization would not be attractive to the Iranian-American community and could not raise tax-exempt donations. On the other hand, a 501C is limited in the amount of Lobbying it can legally perform.
In 2002, Parsi, Bob Ney and two Washington lobbyists Roy Cofee and David DiStefano worked together over nine months to create a parallel organization to NIAC that would carry out the lobbying activities while NIAC Continued to work within the Iranian community to provide the necessary recruits for a lobbying campaign of this scale."
Here's the link.
http://iraniansforum.com/lobby/index.php/niac/92-bob-ney-trita-parsi-and-pro-tehran-activities-in-washington
Sorry for the inconvenience.
Proving NIAC is an IRI lobbyist and therefore receives funds from it is not like proving a theorem in Geometry where every step of the proof has to be well established.
Any objective observer with a minimum amount of common sense can deduce based on anecdotal evidence that there is strong connection between these two entities without having to see certified court documents (it would be nice if such documents become available to the public!)
For years countries including Israel have confiscated IRI's shipments of weapons with ample proof that these weapons come from IRI to its proxies in the region and yet the skeptics always refute and dispute the facts and evidences put forward! And, IRI has always denied being the source of these shipments!
Now, for the sake of argument, let's assume/suppose/conjecture/postulate that there is an absolute connection (financial and otherwise) between IRI and NIAC that can be proved in a court of law - do you honestly beleive either of IRI or NIAC would admit to that connection? I doubt it!
I think Iranians (including Mr. BB) have been burnt ever since they shipishly poured on the streets of Iran to observe Khomeini's image on the Moon in 1979 without asking some basic logical questions if the image was indeed Khomeini's face or that of one of the astronaut's pile left behind!
The moral of the story is that it's 37 years too late for folks to ask for evidence! The time that they should have asked for some proof or any proof or an iota of a proof they didn't and the time they should be happy with some proof they ask for direct proof that black holes exist!
No wonder they call us the geejjest nation on planet earth!
My assertion that Iranian-American NIAC members, the everyday member, support NIAC out of Love for Iran is based on me actually joining NIAC to see the fuss from the inside, and then going to meetings to see for myself. Based on this experience, and talking to MANY (but not all) NIAC supporters, both on the Board and off, is that every SINGLE member I have personally met or spoken to or know of, LOVES Iran and is hopeful that through what they think NIAC can do with the money they give it, will lead to a better and more ideal Iran than exists today.
A lot of them feel that fixing Iran is an iterative process and so they agree with the US-Iran Deal now, as a reasonable step in that direction.
I don't agree. That is of course false. You cannot hope for change in Iran by ONLY working on American politicians and changing US policy towards what is essentially only rewarding and emboldening bad behavior, by an unelected unrepresentative untrue Iran we all know too well. If NIAC was truly Iranian-American they would be exercising their Iranian muscles and "hoping for change" over there, as much as they exercise their American ones.
You may also disagree with the NIAC member definition of LOVE FOR IRAN. You may also not even agree on which IRAN they LOVE!
But that's my experience in speaking with them myself. I'm not sure which NIAC member you've spoken to. But the folks I know are as I said.
Your definition of LOVE, or your assumption that EVERY member of NIAC is an evil incarnate, with equal evil intent, is not proven by my experience, nor with anything that I can see in this post as more than your own opinion. Which you are absolutey entitled to. Which is also absolutely debatable. Why I'm doing it now.
I would be interested in your take though, after going inside NIAC as a member like I did, and speaking directly to NIAC members and supporters, rich and not as rich, and then report back if any of them HATED Iran. As you are suggesting.
I will bet you the $50 annual NIAC membership fee, you will come away with the same results I did.
Again, I'm not defending NIAC. I totally agree with you. I think NIAC has mis-represented itself and is not what is claims to be.
SPECIFICALLY THOUGH: NIAC is NOT:
National - Which cleverly uses the word "National" to imply a vast elected and authorized presence across the over 15 major metro areas that are populated by a large Iranian-American presence in the US.
Iranian-American - Which implies thay have been given tacit approval and most importantly the authorization by us, VIA some sort of national vote or election process in which the VERY best Iranian-Americans in the US have been chosen by the majority of people in each metro area to various jobs and posts at the "organization". Some of whom would naturally be sent to DC etc. Today's NIAC is 3 self appointed people who simply want to live in DC. At best?
Council: Which implies a big round table where an oversight committee of wisdom and experience sit, who using their expertise decide on the major issues of the day facing Iranian-Americans and their advocacy, and are made up of the best and brightest, again, placed on the council by some national vote or election process. Today there is no such 'Council". There is barely a rotating Board which is primarily made up of the largest richest donors, and what passes in our community for celebrity.
Finally, on the issue of whether or not NIAC is a paid Lobby of the Iranian Government. I simply have not seen any evidence that holds water. Given the stakes, our standard of proof of this must be naturally high. Our proof must be watertight. Then we're going to have to figure out what to do about it. Because even if it turns out to be true, being a paid lobby of the Iranian government isn't actually illegal in the US!
We discussed the Daie lawsuit at length on my post and at best it showed NIAC was unable to defend it's own lawsuit. It certainly did not prove ANY of Daie's allegations which were ultimately never tested. NIAC's incompetence to prove Daie was lying, does not actually prove NIAC's guilt. Or at least that's essentially what a court of LAW said by striking aside NIAC's defamation suit against Daie. Barely making NIAC pay back what Daie spent on his defense. So is that a Tie?
If we were organized, and moral in our own community and showed solidarity for each other and stood with each other for a free Iran, we would have stopped NIAC the first year it began.
To be clear. I am not a supporter. I am against NIAC. I think it is a usueless idea, that will never accomplish what we all want most. But given the odds stacked against us now, namely our own cowardice, apathy, and essentially laziness, to organize ourselfes like EVERY SINGLE OTHER MINORITY has seemed to be able to accomplish quite easily, in the US, I dont see NIAC being stopped anytime soon by us at least.
Maybe we're hoping for another hero like Daie. Well, hopefully not like Daie. Hopefully better.
But if we are only hoping for heroes, and cannot get our act together, in of all places here, than it paints a sad picture of our future as a free people, which at this point in time, is the very definition of OXYMORON. (Iranians in the US are completely free to speak out against the injustice and inhumanity being conducted inside Iran every day, yet can't seem to muster the energy to utter one word of collective objection to it!)
Emphasis on the MORON.
Reply to Inspector Clouseau Watson:
I went out that night, but never saw the face of Khomeini in the moon. I just saw the moon.
But you are correct. I am most certainly burnt. Aren't you? Or are you actually happy Iran sucks this bad?
Of course I know the answer. But as much as you may think you're not, you're actually with us all in the same boat that's been slowly sinking over 37 years... 38... 39... 40... ???
Dear GR,
I was going to add a comment in support of your argument, but that will only add fuel to the fire! So I refrain from commenting.
Dr. T should have been selected as Donald trump campaign manager. Serioulsy, i think that as we get closer to the general election, and candidates think of adopting better and more innovative strategy, Dr. T and his motor-mouth buddies can pitch in and help.
GR
What shows are you talking about? are you referring to the weekly political ones, such as meet the press, ABC this week, face the nation, etc?
Dude. Jake tapper's show The Lead is a big hit here in tehran. I won't go to sleep unless i listen to the whole thing. I forgot the name but that show he runs on sundays is also a big hit. we gather around and listen while we Do our Hooka or as it is commonly referred to "hubble bubble":))))
There is even a theory that faramaz joon here may have the same looks at Jake...and that he is soo hotttt. anyone wanna jump in on that one?:)
GR
Well you know what? I will take bill o'reilly's words and put them far and above anything or anyone else out there, namely politicians, because he knows just the what the heck is going on in the system.
You can make that judgment with regards to the media outlets everywhere in the world. DO think the crap they pass off as news on various IRI outlets really have any credibility. REally boggles the mind who is behind so much "chakhan" or as we say Bullshit...all the way, and what goes through retarded minds when they write the scripts.
But there is one fact that distinguishes that from what we hear from US media. I am a firm believer that at least the latter gives us a bit more "logical" believeable part of the news, since at least we hear from the newsmakers themselves, appearing in full interviews and saying things that go way beyond sound bites. No so in iran. I am not saying it is all good , but it is more informative, considering.
The whole notion of a Dictatot is nothing but a misnomer. They are all pawns, Saddam was one, Ghaddafii was one, and the same goes for the whole cast of clowns in iran. they are all being told what to do, what scripts to follow and how to say things that they say , so as to strike a deep chord with the audience, that is all that there is to it. All the leaders of various movements and currents and whatnot, are there because their presence is requested, if they are not there, u can rest -assured that they have either been diposed of or will be eventually.
Call me conspiritorially -minded, but that is how it goes.
You are right. It can not be called Obama's legacy per se, because he just like others had a list of thing that he had to do , but since it happened during his presidency that is how it will be remembered and end up in the books.
Hey dude. That was your bookkkk??? I picked up a copy the other day at the local drugstore. It was faaaantaaastic, Just like the NBA action. But could not help but notice the letter "M" missing from the word "Masses"...in certain spots. i would call my publisher if i were you.
Made the whole thing a bit awkward. know what i am sayin'?:)
GR jan
Did I?? why don't you read your blog over and find the zillion references that you made to iran, its people, the love people have or show for it and how the NIAC people have betrayed it . And i am on the hook for making one remote comparison??
I guess all the thuggery displayed by the NIAC which in your opinion resembles what the IRI does to the people, is also a sign that you Do not love iran, right? Sorry pal. it is hard to hide these things:)
I hope you are not a Judge in a court of law or something...cuz otherwise...
Yeah I love iran as much as I love to take a ...in public.
That is right.
Reply to GR:
Here's your exact assertions on your definition of a NIAC member's "Love for Iran":
"Since love is an emotion and a mental activity it cannot be easily proven. Thus, whether the members indeed love Iran or their membership is due to other factors cannot be proven by the payments of their fees. So, your statement is either a self-projecting one or merely based on a the false premise that since NIAC's activities have something to do with Iran therefore those who join it must love Iran. That is your assumption that they love Iran is lacking hard evidence."
You have just stated your definition of LOVE for Iran differs than that of a NIAC member.
Again, I'm not trying to get anyone here to like NIAC, I get that. But I'm trying to explain to you that the people you are all seemingly dumbfounded by, that somehow would dare to supoprt NIAC are somehow not Iran lovers.
What I'm trying to say is, as WRONG as they may be in their support of NIAC, they're hearts are somewhat in the right place vis-vis wanting the best for Iran.
Their mistake is in HOW they choose to support that good intention. Their mistake is in thinking that by supporting NIAC that will achieve a good result for Iran and the Iranian people.
This is incorrect. They are wrong. They don;t know this, and some will not accept it (yet) and stand by their decision to have merely chosen to believe NIAC's approach.
While we can certainly condemn them for that kind of bad judgement, what I found (by talking to them and trying to learn why they would do what sesm to be so stupid) was that we cannot question their sense of patriotism in making what we clearly see as a very bad call, and the worst investment they have ever made.
Dear GR,
Brewski went to NIAC with a $50 bill in his hand and looking for love! He saw the love, but it was for Iran and not for him.
He got a NIAC T-shirt as a souvenir!
GR
Behrooz khan sure does the sound of his arguments. Perhaps he was a debate team leader or something back in Hiii eskool:))) but was not always Highh:)